Teach me about IKBS

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    • - another aspect you need to look at is the attitude of folder makers

      Sure, there are some who are happy to plod along producing what they've been making for years - then there's others who like to look forward and innovate.......ideas, designs, materials etc., they all evolve.

      Some of this new ways of making will include bearings - so a maker may see what others have done and try bearings instead of bushes, particularly so if they see that they're catching on and selling like hot cakes. Also, they may wish to try for themselves anyway.



      Am not going to say for or against, but I can see desire, the benefit of both types of blade opening...
      ..

      ...anyone who rides a bike and loves nature, can never be poor, we will always be happy, no matter what
      Gunther Muller
    • Jimmypie wrote:

      Stuart Ackerman wrote:

      Let us look at the pure mechanics here...

      Yes the IKBS system is smooooth...
      But, there is a huge space for all sorts of dirt to get in, and stay in...especially with more area around the balls that are coated in grease...
      As a flipper, you really want the pivots to moooove!

      With a more traditional approach...where blades are moving 180° or thereabouts, and slower than a bali...
      A simple phos broze bushing on either side of the blade, and a smaller amount of lubricant, means less place for dirt to get and stay in...
      And when a phos bushing wears, replace it with one of the shelf...

      Not to rubbish what others make and buy...
      But...I know which one I prefer...
      which models with the system have you tried ?
      One of Andre Thorburns...
      I do not now the model it is/was, as it belonged to a friend...
      You can get jagged, brutal cuts, slow fades, shimmering little morphs...
    • if we knife types can't even agree on something simple like whether forging or stock removal makes better knives or what's the best steel then i doubt we'll resolve something complicated like bearings vs washers vs bushes! :)

      i'm not too bothered by the pivot system as long as the knife has everything else i'm looking for. I've had a CRKT with bearings that flips beautifully but i have folders with washers that glide open really nicely (not quite as smoothly as the the bearings but still very smooth). as i maker i'll use washers as they've easier to do and more importantly easier to maintain and clean, but one day if i have the tools and inclination i'll give the bearings a bash
      He who would sup with the mighty must climb the path of daggers
    • Agree with all of this Chui :) Development and evolution are good, and there are of course, pro's and con's to bearings and plain bushes. I do like the concept of precision bearings for folding knives, in fact I like precision engineering - just because...

      Having a think about the use of bearings reminds me of another 'circumstance' where bearings are used where rotation is partial and relatively slow, and they are subjected to continuous shock loadings too - the head-stocks of motor and push bikes. They are ideal for this purpose because they can be adjusted very accurately, however (when I was a boy) prior to them being fitted with 'seals' they used to need fairly regular adjustment and periodic replacement when the bearings eventually pitted' the tracks in the 'races'. However, bearings in a knife fould be subject to negligable shock loadings :)

      Its also the case that for some folk the main issues are likely to be 'can I keep dirt out' (applies to me) and 'will I lose the balls' if its dismantled - although I have never needed to take a knife apart other than on a work table :)

      All my knives (barring one which resides in its unopened box) are used to some degree and the few I use regularly, get dirty, wet and often muddy. So its 'horses for couses, but - I do promise that if I ever try to sell any knives that I have used hard, especially around the boat-yard - I will declare that they have been dropped in the mud and sand :thumbsup:
    • - cheers, OGD!

      You also have to bear in mind that all essential word - quality.

      Now sold, but probably my smoothest ever opening folder, or at least it sticks in my mind that it was, was a Klotzli - this one...



      ...so silky smooth it was unreal. Not fast, just smooth. And I think they were a combo of ph.br and nylon


      I have a few IKBS. The worst is the Boker Kwaiken - appalling for IKBS, but hey, I love the design.

      The best are by Andre Thorburn and Andre Van Heerden - but then, they would be.


      Also have a Monster by Brad Duncan. It just flies open, but much due to the size. It is a combo again of ph.br and nylon...

      Display Spoiler
      ...bigger than my old Randall

      ..

      ...anyone who rides a bike and loves nature, can never be poor, we will always be happy, no matter what
      Gunther Muller
    • .........interesting discussion though.

      What is it people want..

      - smooth opening
      - fast opening
      - that they can call it IKBS because it's all the rage

      The one thing I have learnt above all in the last couple of years is to buy less, buy better - and, whether, IKBS or ph.br - to me it's all about the design and build quality.

      I'd rather buy a stunning folder at $800 than four at $200... (for example)
      ..

      ...anyone who rides a bike and loves nature, can never be poor, we will always be happy, no matter what
      Gunther Muller
    • OldGreyDog wrote:

      My tilt on this subject is that ball bearings are an engineering solution for bearings that rotate constantly and/or at high speed. By reducing the contact area (compared to a plain bush) they generate less heat and consequently retain their lubricant longer, particularly in high speed installations (ball/roller bearing lathes for example are capable of running at higher speeds than those with plain bearings). However they are prone to collecting dirt (far more than plain bushes) and in nearly every application will need close fitting dust or waterproof seals. In the case of a ball bearing installation in a folding knife, the bearing does not move through a full circle, does not operate for long enough or sufficiently fast enough to generate significant heat, and is rarely, if ever, fitted with a proper waterproof seal (as found on cars and bicycles etc).

      I would agree that a small ball bearing system is likely to feel smoother than a plain bronze bush when relatively new (and clean), but I feel that in long term use the tried and tested, porous bronze (hopefully) bush, will prove more tolerant of wear (the bushes will never wear out or fail in normal use), are tolerant of infrequent maintenance (there is little ill effect and they will not fail or fall apart if they are not perfectly adjusted), will retain lubricant better, need less frequent adjustment, and importantly for many users, can be stripped down and reassembled anwwhere with little risk of losing parts.

      All this said, I like the idea of the concept of ball bearings in a knife, even if for no reason other than as a demonstration of engineering prowess, but I don't see myself buying one because it has a ball bearing system.
      OGD you have spoken as an engineer about the system and it makes sense. I guess my thinking is coloured by why I got into knives and that is through shooting. Arguably the most beautiful folder I have has IKBS, its got a damasteel blade therefore has a top end blade steel for hard use. But then it has quite a few features that you simply wouldn't want to risk getting marked up and bloodied, when gralloching a deer for example. I would say that yes I could use it, but then it would need a complete strip down, clean and lubricate. Therefore what's the point in using it? as I don't have an infinite amount of time. Therefore, I guess that I have to give my head a shake and stop judging a knife on its hunting and hard use merits and look at it as a piece of art, fit for only certain more limited uses. Like keeping it neatly wrapped up in its cushioned suit and taking it out now and again admiring its refined beauty, flipping it and enjoying how well it is made and how perfect in every way it is, except.....
    • OldGreyDog wrote:

      Most importantly there are knives out there to suit everyone's preferences and needs, whether they are gonna be used as beaters, used carefully, or admired and fondled - long may it continue.... :)
      So very much agree.

      It does get rather irritating seeing users criticisng people for not using knives; I don't see those who choose not to use them criticising those who do.

      Each to their own.
    • hughtrimble wrote:

      OldGreyDog wrote:

      Most importantly there are knives out there to suit everyone's preferences and needs, whether they are gonna be used as beaters, used carefully, or admired and fondled - long may it continue.... :)
      So very much agree.
      It does get rather irritating seeing users criticisng people for not using knives; I don't see those who choose not to use them criticising those who do.

      Each to their own.
      Totally agree with you Hugh, I have 600 in the collection and probably 5 "proper users", and that's my choice.
      I also know someone who spent $1300 on a knife and beats the crap out of it........That's his choice and I think no less of him.
      Used to get the same from my biker buddies over my custom "Harley" versus their "real" bikes.
      Follow me on instagram.
      instagram.com/san_mai_usa/
    • Some times it really strikes me what a funny lot we are :vain:

      I've had some people at work asking me to sharpen their knives and I've done a couple as a freebie but told them what it would cost next time and they said the knives weren't worth that much which I knew of course! This then leads to a discussion about how to keep them sharp so I start giving them options and it became clear that the things that are important to us are barely an afterthought to most people, I mean they bitchh about their knives being dull but when I explain what it takes to keep them sharp I can see that they will never spend the money necessary to get a decent hone let alone a decent set of knives.

      I suppose folders are a similar thing, some just see a sharp bit of metal that folds, others see and appreciate the details. To me bearings are a detail that can certainly add something to a knife, they can also detract though.
      "Do or Do not, There is No Try" - Yoda
    • san-mai-usa wrote:

      I also know someone who spent $1300 on a knife and beats the crap out of it
      What was the knife out of interest Maurice?






      "This is my rifle.There are many like it, but this one is mine"

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Sharpen it like you love it, use it like you hate it.
    • hughtrimble wrote:

      OldGreyDog wrote:

      Most importantly there are knives out there to suit everyone's preferences and needs, whether they are gonna be used as beaters, used carefully, or admired and fondled - long may it continue.... :)
      So very much agree.
      It does get rather irritating seeing users criticisng people for not using knives; I don't see those who choose not to use them criticising those who do.

      Each to their own.
      but there's always plenty of "my £6 China special is just as good as...."
      And of course the old "you must be loaded to be using that" or "more money than sense"
      But your right , each to there own ;)
    • Jimmypie wrote:

      but there's always plenty of "my £6 China special is just as good as...."
      And of course the old "you must be loaded to be using that" or "more money than sense"
      But your right , each to there own
      I can't say I've seen any of the 'You must be loaded to be using that' or 'more money than sense' on the knife forums I visit? Sure you get it (and a whole lot of other things =O ) on YouTube, but not on my main bladey archives.

      Is it something you've experienced on Instagram?